Reformed/Calvinist scholars and Preachers I really like
With the resurgence of what’s been called “The New Calvinists” in the past decade or so, Reformed Theology has been gaining steam among a new generation of Christians. (See the Christianity Today cover story “Young, Restless and Reformed” for a fuller treatment of it.)
Among evangelicals, particularly the 35 and under crowd, Reformed theology has been simply seen as “what the Bible teaches” and “what evangelicals believe.” Due to the successful ministries of dynamic authors, preachers and speakers such as Louie Giglio, John Piper, Mark Driscoll, Kevin DeYoung and Josh Harris, Calvinist/Reformed theology is ranked, according to Time magazine, 3rd on the list of Top 10 Ideas that are Changing the World Right Now. That’s pretty darn impressive, and many many people are coming to Jesus based on the ministries of such men. For that, I am thankful.
However, the New Calvinists have not been without their detractors–particularly from the Emergent Church movement (for an example of a respectful, but sharp criticism, click here). This has created some…shall we say, tension…among evangelical Christians (I’ve actually had someone de-friend me on Facebook because I challenged some of the ideas she continually put forth from the teachings of various popular New Calvinist preachers!)
However, this need not be the case. Those of us who are not part of the Reformed/Calvinist stream of tradition still have much to learn from many of the gifted brothers and sisters within their theological ranks. I can attest to this personally, having sat under amazing Reformed/Calvinist teachers at Gordon-Conwell, and this is why I’m so glad to have gone to an interdenominational seminary rather than one from a single doctrinal tradition. I was challenged, encouraged, strengthened and edified by many Reformed/Calvinists…and I continue to learn from them to this day!
However, as in most areas of Biblical study, the best gems often remain hidden behind the glamorous “big names” who the average Christian sees as representative of the cream of the crop. This is not a blanket slight against any of the Christian celebrities among the New Calvinist readership (both in print and on iTunes), but if all you know of theology is what you’ve read from John MacArthur or Mark Driscoll, you are missing out on the better minds Reformed/Calvinist theology has to offer.
So I wanted to share a few names that you may or may not be familiar with, but who I believe represent some of the best there is in Biblical/Theological thinking, writing and teaching, period…and all of whom are Reformed/Calvinist. Even when I find myself disagreeing with them (which of course I do on a number of issues), I have nothing but respect and admiration for their work:
D.A. Carson – I’ve often remarked lightheartedly that Carson is “my favorite Calvinist!” Carson is a brilliant scholar whose work has challenged and blessed me in my ministry time and time again. Some of his works I’ve gained from reading are “The Inclusive Language Debate,” “Exegetical Fallacies,” “The Sermon on the Mount,” and pretty much any commentary he’s written.
Tim Keller – Among the names on this list, Keller’s is probably the most well-known among the general populace. His book “The Reason for God” was a bestseller…and rightfully so! Unlike the stereotype of the New Calvinist as combative, argumentative and dogmatic (which, like all stereotypes, is not universally true…though, like all stereotypes, does contain an uncomfortable kernel of truth), Keller’s demeanor in writing and speaking is warm, humble and inclusive, yet convicting and challenging at the same time.
Bill Mounce – I’m partial to Mounce, not only because I learned Greek through his “Basics of Biblical Greek” textbook (along with thousands of other seminarians throughout the past decade!), but also because he’s not afraid to let the text of Scripture challenge some Reformed/Calvinist doctrinal assumptions. He’s also extremely charitable in handling theological differences. For instance, while he was a translator of the uber-popular ESV Bible translation (the de facto translation among the New Calvinists) and one of its most vocal advocates, he also agreed to be a contributing editor of the NIV2011 translation, which takes the place of the much-hated-by-New-Calvinists TNIV translation. Mounce knows that when it comes to Bible translations there’s room at the table for both formally-equivalent and dynamic-equivalent translations. Kudos to Bill for being an example of true Biblical translation scholarship in contrast to the many misleading reactionary stances like that of the SBC which often circulate within Conservative Evangelical circles.
Tremper Longman/Peter Enns/Bruce Waltke – Despite the recent controversies between these three OT scholars and various Reformed/Calvinist institutions, all three have done amazing work in Hebrew Bible scholarship. Their books and commentaries are fantastic and though they may be demonized by some online, they are well worth reading!
Duane Garrett – Another phenomenal OT scholar and editor for one of the best study Bibles on the market, the Archeology Study Bible. Garrett’s book “Rethinking Genesis” is a wonderful exploration of the deficiencies of older critical hypotheses regarding the composition and authorship of the Torah (also known as “Documentary Hypotheses”) that so many OT scholars still unfortunately cling to and which is still the standard fare in mainline OT scholarship.
Gordon Hugenberger – Besides a fantastic last name, Hugenberger is one of the best lecturers I’ve ever heard. He’s also the teaching Pastor at Boston’s oldest and largest evangelical church, the historic Park Street Church (well worth attending sometime if you’re ever in Beantown!). Hugenberger was a contributor to the ESV Study Bible as well, and even when I disagree with him I still have tremendous respect for his work.
J.I. Packer – The “Dean of evangelical Theologians!” Packer is wonderful and despite being thoroughly Calvinistic in his theology, he doesn’t make it his emphasis. Along with John Stott, (the “Dean of evangelical Pastors!”) is one of the greatest theologians of the 20th century.
Greg Beale – As someone who teaches the Book of Revelation, I am indebted to Beale’s work. His commentary in the NIGTC series is, without a doubt, the finest and most thorough commentary on Revelation in print. Period. Hands down. ANYONE who attempts to teach or preach from Revelation and is not familiar with Beale’s work is driving with a cracked windshield at best!
This is by no means an exhaustive list; there are many, many other scholars, pastors and theologians within the Reformed/Calvinist tradition who I deeply admire. But these are some that anyone who prides him- or herself on a love of theological study and doctrine (something the New Calvinists hold in high regard…as we all should!) should make it a point to read and learn from.
JM
ps: I’ve NEVER come across a similar list from a Reformed/Calvinist perspective regarding non-Reformed scholars and theologians. But I’d be VERY interested in reading one if any of my Reformed/Calvinist brothers or sisters would care to share one with me! 🙂
Categories: Biblical Scholarship, Biblical Theology, Blog, Hebrew Bible, New Testament, Theological issues
I just can’t believe anyone likes Calvinism at all. It’s the most moronic philosophical thinking ever. You have no free will and God rewards or punishes you based on who he has personally chosen to either torture or reward from before the beginning of time. It’s really the stupidest Christian theology I’ve ever heard in my entire life. I think anyone who follows John Calvin basically has no brain cells and has never taken a basic logic course.
The last Calvinist I talked to told me to repent my good deeds and to stop doing good things for people (since all good deeds are useless).
by Chris McCauley on Sep 9, 2010 at 2:20 pm
Hi Chris,
Just to correct you brother. The comment you quoted from your “Calvinistic” friend would never come out of the mouth of a true Calvinist. His quote reflects more of a Hyper-Calvinistic view which is heresy. The problem is when non-Calvinists criticize Calvinists they sometimes use examples of Hyper-Calvinism.
In Christ,
Todd
by Todd on Feb 28, 2012 at 12:58 am
>The problem is when non-Calvinists criticize Calvinists they sometimes use >examples of Hyper-Calvinism.
I see. So the Calvinist I was talking to was lying about being a Calvinist and wasn’t a “true” Calvinist.
I think that might be an example of the “No true Scotsman” fallacy, unless you can demonstrate to me how your position is different than his, and further, how his position is NOT “true” calvinism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
If you would like to explain to me how good deeds matter under Calvinism, I’m all ears in listening.
by Chris Bowers on Feb 28, 2012 at 6:33 am
I never said he wasn’t sincere in his Calvinistic beliefs. I am simply stating that in reference to the comment that he made to you that IT wasn’t a true representation of what Calvinist believe and thus it has become a straw man in your argument. Good deeds are extremely important. James talks about displaying his faith through his works. The works is not what saves you but they can be a demonstration that your faith (salvation) is real. True saving faith will always produce good fruit and real action. If not, then your faith is dead and just lip service.
In a spirit of love, truth, and sincerity,
Todd
by Todd on Feb 29, 2012 at 11:00 pm
>The problem is when non-Calvinists criticize Calvinists they sometimes use >examples of Hyper-Calvinism.
I see. So the Calvinist I was talking to was lying about being a Calvinist and wasn’t a “true” Calvinist.
I think that might be an example of the “No true Scotsman” fallacy, unless you can demonstrate to me how your position is different than his, and further, how his position is NOT “true” calvinism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
If you would like to explain to me how good deeds matter under Calvinism, I’m all ears in listening.
by Chris Bowers on Feb 28, 2012 at 6:33 am
Todd, this is something I don’t understand about Calvinism.
If good deeds are not what saves you, then why do them? If you’re already saved then it seems there would be no motivation or need to do good deeds. If your salvation is assured, then why wouldn’t you simply sin as much as you can? After all, you know you’re going to be saved, so why not?
Secondly, you say that faith without works is dead. If that’s true, then it’s the deeds which are the neccesary condition for salvation. If faith alone isn’t enough, and deeds are neccesary, then how is faith the cause of the salvation?
by Chris Bowers on Mar 1, 2012 at 4:47 am
Hi Chris,
Good questions bro.
“If good deeds are not what saves you, then why do them? If you’re already saved then it seems there would be no motivation or need to do good deeds. If your salvation is assured, then why wouldn’t you simply sin as much as you can? After all, you know you’re going to be saved, so why not?”
Todd’s reply: Good deeds are one of the things God is glorified through our lives. I can’t list them all but one would be to preach the Gospel to every living creature. One of the evidences of true saving faith (not just a confessional faith) is that obedience will follow (not perfection) but sincere obedience. So, if the faith is real it will show in your actions and thus bring honor and glory to our King. The whole point James makes is that I’ll show you my faith is real by how I live. You can say you have faith in God but saying it doesn’t prove anything. The truly faithful love God because of His grace and mercy so he seeks to please Him with his live as the believer should be ever a living sacrifice which is his reasonable service. All of these things are a result of being saved from your transgressions (sins). So If we’re truly saved from our sins, what are we doing by continuing in them (as a matter of lifestyle). So the true believe isn’t going to have the attitude of “OK, God saved me so screw the world and God, it’s time to party!” That would be bad fruit of which it is impossible to be considered a believer. Also, faith is not the cause of salvation, it is Grace through Faith slone. Both are gifts of God who without Him doing this nobody would ever come to Christ. The natural man cannot understand the things of the spirit. They are foolishness to him. That’s why when a christian prays they pray for God to open the heart and eyes of their loved ones because ultimately they know that if God doesn’t do this their loved ones will never choose God on their own because of a natural love for sin. I know I said alot but it’s safe to say more can be said and probably will be.
Love you bro.
In Christ,
Todd
by Todd on Mar 1, 2012 at 9:59 pm
If Jesus saves you, good deeds will come to you through the Holy Spirit and give you the strength to do them. You will do them because you love The Lord.
by swg on May 10, 2018 at 10:18 pm
Todd, what you are basically saying is
Faith + 0 =/= Salvation. (Faith alone without obedience isn’t salvation).
Then you say:
Faith + Deeds = Salvation.
And your conclusion from this equation is that it’s the faith that caused the salvation??!?!?
I don’t understand that. It seems to me that it was the addition of obedience that caused the salvation, the addition of the deeds. So because of the addition of those deeds or that obedience makes it “true faith”.
Thus it is the deeds (or obedience) that causes the salvation, not the faith alone.
I understand that it is God’s grace that ultimately has the power to save. (God’s loving choice to save us despite our imperfections) But Jesus was clear that God would not give this grace to the unrighteous and evil people, or am I wrong in that?
by Chris Bowers on Mar 2, 2012 at 3:18 am
Chris has an important point some of us (as Calvinists) don’t admit.
We do sometimes use language that communicates works are necessary for final salvation. Occasionally, some of us even say it that way!
As a ‘weak’ Calvinist myself, I have offered a solution in terms of understanding the distinction between salvation and sanctification.
The role of works is related to eternal rewards for the believer…keeping salvation/justification as a gift (un-earned / not a reward).
For more:
Book: Back to Faith
Site: http://www.backtofaith.com
Blessings,
Dr. Fred R. Lybrand
by Fred Lybrand on Mar 30, 2012 at 2:33 pm
No one has answered my question.
Both of you are asserting that faith is the determining factor in salvation. Then when I point out that people can have faith but do wholly evil things, and that if God saved evil people that would be completely unjust, you say “But that’s not true faith, true faith is having faith AND acting morally obedience”.
So then we’re back to God saving people if and only if they obey God and “accept” his gift, when at the outset you claimed that it was the faith doing the saving, in reality it’s the obedience that allows for the saving.
A rhetorical song and dance doesn’t get you out of the fact that your conclusion that it’s the FAITH that saves you is wholly illogical, even according to your OWN assertions.
And that, right there, is precisely why I think Calvinism is illogical and unbiblical.
If God saves completely immoral people, not only does that make God completely unjust, but he’s encouraging them to sin: as long as you have faith you’re saved so you are free to sin whenever you want.
If you say that it’s neccesary for them to be obedient to God in order to be saved, then you’re admitting precisely the thing you denied at the outset: that ethical behavior has no bearing and isn’t neccesary for salvation.
Further, you deny that obedience is the deciding factor, yet you add it as the deciding factor when describing “real faith” vs. “fake faith”.
All in all, it makes absolutely no sense and can’t stand the light of the slightest bit of sane reasonable thinking.
by Chris Bowers on Mar 30, 2012 at 3:03 pm
Chris Calvinists generally believe in progressive e Sanctification. Salvation is by Christ alone. Faith itself, the Bible tells us which is true will correspond in love to God and will itself provide good works within that’s. That is why we are saved by grace through faith not of ourselves, however God did ordain us to walk in good works. God saves us, and he sanctifies us, when his gulf rev disobey him he chastised then and brings them back into himself. One cannot be saved and have no works not because he is saved by his work, but because God is the one doing the saving and will bring good works by the Holy Spirit into his people’s lives. Now this is mysterious and hard to understand in some ways but this is why we’re told to make our calling and election sure because it is God who works in us both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
by David on Mar 12, 2017 at 2:12 pm
Chris, The logic is from God and found in the Bible. Saved by Faith alone and works will come from he who lives in you. Keep searching and I pray you will understand you can never be good enough except for the saving grace of Jesus. God Bless
by swg on May 10, 2018 at 10:27 pm
Their no good in me except Jesus. He saved me and does his work through the elect. His love sustains me. Where is free will in the Bible. I read a lot about elect,foreknew,chosen and predestined. Read the Bible and pray. God Bless
by swg on May 10, 2018 at 10:14 pm
Thanks for this list. How about a list of Free-will scholars as well!
by Matt on Sep 10, 2010 at 10:57 pm
Hmmm…okay, here’s a short list of some of my favorite non-Calvinist scholars and teachers:
N.T. Wright
Ben Witherington
Doug Stuart
Gordon Fee
Scot McKnight
Thomas Oden
Ravi Zacharias
William Lane Craig
Jeff Niehaus
Roger Olson
…and too many others to name individually. 🙂
by jm on Sep 11, 2010 at 4:22 am
Great list. As a young Wesleyan in seminary I’d be interested in reading a larger post with some insights on Arminian/Wesleyan scholars and devotional material which have helped shape you. So often when I talk to students and others today who are hungry for growing in their knowledge of Christ the only books they can find are Reformed ones since the Wesleyans have left a void in Gospel centered popular materials.
by Jonathan Andersen on Sep 11, 2010 at 6:47 pm
Honestly, there aren’t too many from our tradition who are producing good popular level work. Tom Oden, Ben Witherington, Joel Green, Dennis Kinlaw, Adam Hamilton, Mark Beeson, Tim Tennent…I don’t know of too many others at the moment.
by jm on Sep 11, 2010 at 7:10 pm
I totally forgot to mention Michael Brown in the first list of non-Calvinist scholars and Bill Arnold and Richard Hayes in the list of Methodist/Wesleyan scholars.
by jm on Sep 17, 2010 at 5:21 pm
Cool, I’ll have to check these guys out. I don’t consider myself Reformed (my theology leans more towards the Radical Reformation than the Reformation), but I like to read about Calvinism. The problem is most Calvinists I’ve read–Piper, Driscoll, MacArthur–are borderline fundamentalists. In fact, the only difference I see between MacArthur and Jerry Falwell is MacArthur isn’t interested in being a politician.
by Travis Mamone on Mar 10, 2011 at 5:45 pm
Not sure how you define “fundamentalist” but I see it as one who takes the Bible literally. Of course there are places where it is not literal, but most of it is literal. From this view I would be considered a fundamentalist. But I greatly disagree with Piper, Driscoll, and MacArthur’s theology. I think they are way out in left field theologically. They believe that God turned into a man, that people go straight to a place called “heaven” upon death, that God is in control of all that happens, that dead people are alive etc.
by Chris Westerman on Dec 20, 2012 at 4:28 pm
I agree with Chris Bowers, Calvinism is completely unbiblical. True Calvinism says that God has already pre selected or pre ordained some to be with him in heaven and thus consequently he pre ordained some to go to hell. The problem is that 2 Peter 3:9 says he desires none to perish. Notice the word none, the bible did not say “some”. Another fallacy to the Calvinist argument is when God says he has no pleasure in the death to the wicked or how about when Jesus said that hell was created for the devil and his angels, but being a Calvinist he pre ordained some to go to hell I guess that would make Jesus statement here untruthful. When I read the bible it still says he did not create hell for man. You can read John Calvin and the rest of the movement and read the doctrine of Calvinism, me I will stick to reading God’s word the bible.
By the way men go to hell, but not because they were pre selected to go there, but by their free will choices to reject Christ atonement for sins.
by Travis on Nov 30, 2012 at 5:47 pm
Good article. I have read a couple of Tim Kellers’s books and really enjoyed them alot. I am sad to hear that he is a Calvinist as I believe this theology is ungodly and unscrlptural to say the least. But, to each his own.
by Chris Westerman on Dec 20, 2012 at 4:21 pm
I love it when people come onto a page and insult the intelligence of a large group of God’s people because they hold a particular view or doctrine different from their own.
The lack of understanding of each others major doctrinal belief’s is what causes others to sit at the sidelines and throw rocks instead of truly investigating what they believe and how they got their.
Calvinism poses a lot of people with a major question to answer. Did you first come to the knowledge of God by your own free will or did you come to the knowledge of your sinfulness before God by your own free will?
Well both are wrong as their was never any free will to start with! Since Adam’s fall all men’s will’s have been enslaved to sin making sin and selfishness of the heart their God. No man can come to the slightest knowledge of God unless the Spirit has begun regenerating their hearts so that they can see God in the first place.
In seeing God in the light of their sinfulness they are led again by the Spirit unto repentance. Of which afterwards they work out their salvation with fear and trembling beginning a process of sanctification which ultimately leads to glorification.
I fail in my humble opinion to see how this is heretical and un-scriptural as no part is based on human effort for salvation.
Here is a fact that all Christians agree upon, God chose us we did not choose Him. Here is another one, The Spirit draws all men unto Himself, we did not.
The biggest issue with Calvinism is not so much the free will (of which we can now see never existed in the first place), but what is contested more angrily is the losing of one’s salvation. Calvinists would say no, if it’s a true conversion. We will determine that by the fruit of the Christian. “First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also,
I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.” Acts 26:20
The heart of one who has been saved will ultimately have a desire and passion to serve the living God moving away eventually from all the selfish desires of the heart as the are continually sanctified.
Now I am aware that what I have said here in a brief statement will be slated by many but all I ask is before you slate me is to ask yourself those simple questions.
Every blessings.
(PS. I am a Calvinist youth/children’s pastor working in a non Calvinist church and we exist together without insulting one anthers intelligence)
by Gary on Apr 27, 2013 at 1:03 pm
Gary, I will say that your article is very well written. I like the part about about no one not being able to come to the Father unless the Holy Spirit draw him, but, would you not say that the person who is being called (which according to 2 Peter 3:9 is everyone) must yield to God’s calling by believing in his heart and confessing with his mouth that God raised Jesus Christ from the dead, according to Romans 10:9-10. I also liked what you had to say about Adam & Eve but, interesting enought, neither Adam or Eve was created with a sin nature and they were in a “Perfect Environment;” and get this Adam wasn’t tempted, Eve was; but because they were created with a free will they made a decision which God did not and will not supersede, and thus “The Fall.” This signifies that our will must be in His will! Indicating that “Whosoever will may come,” is very important statement but were we put “Our Will” (obedience) is perhaps just as important. Interesting Fact – According to Google the word “Whosoever Will” appears over 150 times in the King James Bible. The biggest area of confusion I have with Calvinist is Predestination and Once Saved Always Saved. My believe on predestination is – it’s not the person that is predestined, but rather the Plan of God for man’s salvation. God does “call,” because He has to. Why? because the unsaved have no relish or desire for the truth of God, nor do they see the beauty or value in it. So, without God’s initial “call” man could not be saved, but sadly many are rejecting (free will) His call and refusing his plan for salvation.” See Proverbs 1:24-33. Regarding Once Saved Always Saved – probably one of the most heated subjects Christians can discuss, but the bible is repleted with those that have fallen from Grace and turned their backs on the Lord. Let’s take 1 Timothy 1:19-20 for example – “Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.” The Calvinist that I’ve spoken to would say that these people were never saved to begin with, but scriptures like John 6:66, Hebrews 6:4-6, and many others tell me otherwise. Here what I have to say about Unconditional Eternal Security as it relates to 1 Timothy 1:19-20 – “Holding Faith” means to maintain faith in Christ and what He did on the Cross. The Shipwrecked individuals, Hymenaeus and Alexander are examples of those who did not hold the faith and tells us that all who departs from “The Faith” (belief), which is Jesus Christ and what He did on the Cross, can only be concluded as “Blaspheming.”
Lastly, I would like to say that if you still think Unconditional Salvation is biblical, look at all the “if’s” in the bible:
• If you abide in me
• If you keep my commandments
• If you follow after me
• If you abide in my word, then are you my disciple
• If you remain in me
• If you love me
• If you keep my statues
• If you walk in my ways
• If you lean on me
• If you will obey me
• If you Confess
• And there are plenty more
by Ron on May 8, 2013 at 9:17 pm
@ Ron
All Calvinists believe that all individuals are really making choices of which they will be held accountable to God, while holding to God’s sovereign plan of salvation. We do not know how this works but both these truths are biblical. Where Calvinists disagree with Arminians are whether your will are truly free to which we would say only God has truly free will. Human beings actions are all influenced by God, Devil, Angels, demons, people, etc on a daily basis; this when coupled with man’s depravity to sin is clearly evident that our wills are not free at all. So God’s call in salvation while we are sinners and dead in trespasses is what made us truly come to believe. So in essence God initiated first and then we responded.
The questions you have raised in terms of individuals who seemed to be a part of the body of Christ is a legitimate one, however how does that reconcile with a scripture such as, “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us”. (1 John 2:19, ESV). Without the proper handle of scripture to assert that permanent backsliders were never saved we would have a posture of the bible contradicting itself from just this one verse (1 John 2:19) in light of the verses (Timothy 1:19-20; John 6:66, Hebrews 6:4-6) which you quoted. I do believe all Christians experience some level of backsliding (temporary) but it is never permanent. Of note: I could have used more scriptures to substantiate my point of ‘once saved always saved’ but don’t think it is necessary.
by Sheldon on May 31, 2013 at 5:56 am
I agree with sheldon What we can all agree to is that God is “sovereign” he has free will, everything is done according to his will. He is omnipotent omniscient and omnipresent. Theres is nothing we do that changes his plan or way of thinking. Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will. We are also all dead in our trespasses we are completly spiritualy blind. I saw a comment that said they found it wrong that God can choose who can go to heaven and who can go to hell once again technically we all deserve damnation Romans 9:21-23 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory. Those who the lord has called he has chosen the others go to hell by there own actions because that is our natural state to be in bondage to sin.Technically we all deserve to go to hell that is the reason that grace is a gift we didnt deserve.Jesus on the cross paid a fine that no one would have been able to pay on there own. For we were bought by a price and that wasnt the whole world because we know not everyone is going to heaven. And the bible is clear no one can come to the lord on their own. John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him. Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. And for the comment about faith and works faith is all u need to be saved as we see on the cross with the thief he had no works. He truly believed as he was about to die he didnt do no works. But for us who are living in christ daily our fruit should show it. A bad tree does not bear good fruit nor a good tree bear bad fruit. But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble. Anyone can say they belive in God but thats why only God knows our heart. My last point is if we look at Jesus Christ who were suppose to strive and try to be like and model the so called free will this is what our lord has to say about it. Luke 11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. “Thy will” be done, as in heaven, so in earth. If thats not good enough one more. “Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done,” Brothers and sisters may we all come together to edify one another and not bring eachother down the world does that enough. One last thing i do not consider myself a calvinist nor a arminian iam a Christian who believes in the perfect word of God. May the truth set you free.
Ps. Love to all my brothers and sisters
Rudy,
by rudy on Oct 11, 2013 at 8:50 am
Great conversation brethren! I was drawn in by the initial posts between Chris and Todd. I want to reach out to both sides (and everyone in between) and remind us all that we — if we are indeed in Christ — are brethren. I have a deep interest in the topic of election due to struggles to understand it personally. I find the same thing (for the most part) everywhere I go on this subject. I find people on both sides quoting scripture that seems to support their point of view and ignoring the equally valid scripture from the other side.
I recognize that if I were to believe all of the scriptures that point towards God’s sovereign election and ignore the scriptures that point towards the responsibility (of response) of man I would be a Calvinist with a thorn in my side. If I were to go the other way and ignore the scriptures that point towards the Sovereign election of God I would be an Armenian with a spear in my side. Obviously to those who have searched, the weight of evidence pointing towards election is far exceeding that of free-choice. However, I don’t like having thorns of scripture stuck in my side!
[note: I am not using the term Calvinist or Armenian to refer to someone who believes in everything John Calvin or Jacobus Arminius believed, but the central belief they had of Gods election.]
I, after a great degree of struggle that was so intense I feared loosing my faith cried out to God, that He would be gracious and enlighten my understanding and if not, that He would strengthen my faith in the face of seeming biblical contradiction. He being as good and gracious as He is, graciously chose to do both! On this basis that our minds MUST be enlightened by the wisdom of The Spirit of God and not the wisdom of man appeal to all who are struggling to comprehend this, to pray for Gods enlightenment. Only The Spirit of God can teach us how to properly divide the word of truth.
Chris Bowers (in his responses) states a few times that a certain view being presented is “illogical” and states “All in all, it makes absolutely no sense and can’t stand the light of the slightest bit of sane reasonable thinking.” I want to point out that The Fall had serious consequences on our thinking, on our ability to rationalize and to view reality as it really is. In 1 Corinthians 3:18 Paul says “Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.” This is the cause for reliance on God and not our own abilities to solve problems and work through complicated paradoxes.
Ephesians, Romans and John were key for my understanding of election. Now that I see it, I see it everywhere.
In God’s election humans still choose: they always choose to go their own way (as Isaiah said). That includes all of us (before we were called), we chose rebellion rather than submission. So when the bible says you were an ENEMY of God it actually means enemy. You hated God with every fiber of your being. It was because Jesus was crucified that Barrabas (a rebel) wasn’t.
Choice comes after birth. You did not choose to be born the first time, nor (in the truest sense) the second time. In new birth (via the electing purpose of God unto the glory of His name) we receive the ability to choose as children of God to live in accordance to His will. If we choose not to, we are not rejected, but are disciplined as His beloved children. Once you are a child, my friend, my brother, my sister, you are a child! Make your calling and election sure for when you do so, you will stop stumbling! Know who you are, and whose you are!
Essentially there are two kinds of choice in scripture. First, a choice for all men to accept the rule of God, as stated above, all men reject Gods reign, despite rejection it is presented to them by God. The second type of choice is obedience for the children of God. This is the best explanation of various fruitfulness, heavenly rewards and the various quality of structure built upon the foundation of Christ.
Gods righteous character is not marred by election because He is perfectly just in sending all to hell for that is what all have deserved — even what all have chosen. If God is gracious to a few that is His prerogative. As God says to Moses “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy”.
God’s sovereign will must be distinguished from his moral will for there to be even a chance of understanding election and the character of God. God is not willing that any should perish, He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked! He loves all men, and desires ALL to come to a knowledge of the truth. However, God also is against murder, rape and many other evils that He in His sovereignty allows.
God in heaven who is able to stop horrible events that He abhors from taking place stays His hand and allows such things to happen. Whether you agree with election or not, you must agree with this if you agree with the biblical description of the character of God. Distinguish in your mind the difference between Gods sovereign will and Gods moral will. One deals with his character the other deals with His actions based on his knowledge of eternity and His character.
We can trust God to do what is right and more than that if election is true.
Jesus told a parable that deals with God going above and beyond what is just. Interestingly those who received what was just were angry with the owner because He chose to give to some more than what was deserved. Can I point out the wickedness this displays? They were evil (in heart) towards him because He was good! Evil is always made manifest by righteousness, nothing infuriates the sinner more.
“Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity?’ 16 So the last will be first, and the first last.”
–Matthew 20:15
We have a warped version of fairness that seems to be a result of sin. The old adage “If I give one to you I’ll have to give one to everyone” doesn’t hold true with God.
I would point you back to the sin corrupted mind, the sin influenced reasoning that we take with us when we read the scriptures. Paul knows this about men, read Romans 8 & 9 and see how He sees an argument on it’s way in relation to Gods sovereign will. What does that consist of? “That’s not fair!” — A human view of justice and fairness.
In John 3 the most interesting conversation takes place between Jesus and Nicodemus (a ‘great’ teacher in Israel). The conversation was about new birth, entry into the Kingdom of God and how it was completely in the hands of God. This puzzled the great teacher. He must have been thinking “How impractical!” after all… a man can’t climb into His mothers womb and be born again can he? No Nicodemus there is nothing you can do to be born again.
I have no doubt Nicodemus was born again, a righteous man of God who loved God and the truth but had not yet come to understand the deep and rich concept of election. I have been on both sides of this issue, I understand how abhorrent a wrong understanding of the concept of the doctrines of grace can be.
I use to believe that God’s grace was displayed by how He sent His Son Jesus Christ our Lord to die and be our savior. It was not required, it was gracious. I still believe that.
I use to think God was gracious in giving me a choice to accept eternal life and pass freely from death and judgement into life. I still believe that.
I use to think God gave everyone the option to believe in Jesus and be saved from judgement. I still believe that, but now I understand that everyone (myself included rejects that). The part of me that is accepting is not the old me! I am a NEW CREATION. God has chosen to put a new creation into an old corrupt vessel to display His incredible power, glory and grace.
If you are born again, there is a battle between the old man and the new man. Did the old man yield to the will of God? If you know anything about him, you know He didn’t. We are called to put the old man to death, not try and tame it, or convince it or coddle it, but to kill it. One amazing thing about this creative act of God is that He takes some of the attributes of the old man and restores them and they are displayed in the new man.
Sanctification is the new man killing the old man.
Praise God, our Father, our Lord Jesus Christ and The Holy Spirit!
Amen.
by Rob Edgington on Oct 17, 2013 at 5:15 pm
Excellent post Rob.Sounds like i had the same struggles as you.In my prayers and searching i have come to wholly embrace Reformed theology.A great help was the reading of Chosen By God by R.C.Sproul.One striking thing you say in your post is that so much of what is being said here does little justice to either side for lack of a thorough study of both points of view.I see so many errors in the assumptions being made against Calivinism.Most of the grievences against it are made with great errors in understanding.I do see a lot of hostility in the language of some that shows a lack of brotherly love by those who are bent of believing that their obedience to God at least plays a partial role in their salvation.To correct all these misunderstandings would take more time and room than is practical here.Often angry words are born of a spirit of doubt and frustration and insecurities over one’s own beliefs.If people truly want answers,they need to dig deeper than what many here seem not to have done.
by ron on Mar 10, 2017 at 9:19 pm
Salvation is by grace (free gift) through faith (believing) in Jesus. We are saved not by good works but to do good works. Good works is merely evidence of salvation like what James says in the Bible.
by emmanuel on Nov 25, 2013 at 9:23 pm
“8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” — Ephesians 2.8-10
If you read Ephesians very carefully you will see something about faith, if you rush by it you will miss it. In verse 8 Paul states “and ‘that’ not of yourselves”, my question is, what is the antecedent that Paul refers to with the word ‘that’? Is it that the ‘grace’ is not of yourselves? Or is it that the ‘faith’ is not of yourselves? I believe it’s faith Paul is referring to. In other words, even our faith is by grace. We did not have faith in and of ourselves. No one can boast for works, not even for faith.
We see the same thing again earlier in chapter one of Ephesians.
“19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power” — Ephesians 1.19
We believe (i.e. we have faith), why? “according to the working of His mighty power”
I recently became a Calvinist and the words of John MacArthur ring true: “Once you see it, you’ll see it everywhere!”
by Rob Edgington on Nov 26, 2013 at 8:56 pm
Calvinism was orchestrated by Satan himself, of that there is no doubt. Some Calvinists call the reformation an act of God……what an insult to God, the Bible, and to thje true saints who had gone before Augustine and his bunch of demonic workers came along!
Margaret, Kingston, Canada
by Margaret Southee on Mar 20, 2016 at 10:19 am
Very helped by this list – thank you!!
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by to whom do you give your hard earned money 2018 on Jul 26, 2018 at 12:20 am
the mere fact that this is only a recent set of doctrines emphasizes that it is not of God. those who believe the things they do should really examine scripture more carefully rather than as this article suggests, build their relationship with God on the teachings of men….
by Gregg Powers on Nov 15, 2018 at 4:30 pm
Let’s make it easier. Because we all have free will Calvinism can’t stand. If we are programmed and therefore life is basically preordained then enjoy Calvinism. I for one will stick to clear biblical teachings.
by DG on May 29, 2019 at 11:29 pm